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Videoton DCR2520A
#1
Hello from Czech republic,

I want to ask you, how I can upgrade this loudspeakers (change parts in crossover - capacitors..) The bass speaker in it was damged (the surround), so I place here new bass http://www.monacor.cz/catalogue-product.phtml?id=3546&Comp=m&Hier=6&MainKtg=62&SubKtg=520
The receiver Videoton RA-6386S is after "tuning". The power is now 2x64W /4R - disortion 0,11% (before 2x25W/8R).

I like this HiFi configuration, but I wont get the maximum, what the loudspeakers can give Wink Can you help me?

Thanks for answers. .szia.

The receiver before "tuning" http://img158.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf00683yf.jpg
Válaszol
#2
Hello BlackRider

Welcome to the forum Big Grin

What was the problem with the bass driver? You can buy a new one type (from Hangszoro 2000).
(can you tell me the damaged driver's type? eg. HA25/1638-451A or something like that)
I will ask shalafi66 what is the type of the new driver, what you should order.
(Maybe you should modify the crossover...)

Bye!
Üdv, Péter
Válaszol
#3
BlackRider Írta:I want to ask you, how I can upgrade this loudspeakers (change parts in crossover - capacitors..)
Hi !

I found a page for you:
http://hangszoro.net/help/3utas.htm

Here you can find the original and the recommended driver types.
Here you can find your speaker...

Loadspeaker type: DCR 2520 A
Bass driver
original type: HA25-449
recommended type: HA25-479
Mid driver
original type: HB10-427
recommended type: HB10-427
Tweeter
original type: HG2,5-405
recommended type: HG2,5-463

Bye !
Üdv, Péter
Válaszol
#4
Hello and thank you for answer. Wink

Heh, it is interesting, but in the loudspeakers are this drivers (original, by factory):
Bass: HA 25/1018 8ohm
Midrange: HB 12,5/11 8ohm
Tweeters (2): HG 2,5/1624 4ohm

The problem of bass speaker is that rubber is shaked off (maybe bad material). I was repaired that speakers, but the TS parametres are different (worse), than before.

What will happend, if I disconnect the potentiometer wich is adjusting the volume of midrange? I think that middle frequency are weak even the volume of it is at the maximum. Or I can damage midrange? Can the potentiometer degrade sound of midrange?

And can I upgrade the crossover? New capacitors (better quality, same values)? I don't know, if the crossover is 6 db/oct. or 12 dB/oct.

This loudspeakers have very nice sound, but I think, they can play better.


Haven't you got some web like this? http://www.apmlion.wz.cz (with Videoton DIY loudspeakers projects?)


Sorry for so many answers

.oh. Big Grin
Válaszol
#5
BlackRider Írta:Bass: HA 25/1018 8ohm
Midrange: HB 12,5/11 8ohm
Tweeters (2): HG 2,5/1624 4ohm
Hi !

HA25 / 1018 ??? Not 1118 ?
Nowadays you could buy the following speakers against of the old-ones:
Bass: HA25/1118-479 (8 ohm)
Midrange: HB12,5/1108-326 (8 ohm) or HB10/1118-427 (8 ohm) - segítsetek eldönteni ide melyik illik !
Tweeter: HG2,5/1624-463 (4 ohm)

Idézet:The problem of bass speaker is that rubber is shaked off
Yes we know it. The drivers could be work 15-20 years. After this the foam rubber weathering.
And the magnetism is weakening day by day. It means the driver present T/S parameters not corresponding with the original T/S parms.

Idézet:What will happend, if I disconnect the potentiometer wich is adjusting the volume of midrange? I think that middle frequency are weak even the volume of it is at the maximum. Or I can damage midrange? Can the potentiometer degrade sound of midrange?
I think that potentiometer set the volume of the midrange driver. If you disconnect it the midrange driver wont be working Smile or it's voice will be louder than before.

Idézet:And can I upgrade the crossover? New capacitors (better quality, same values)? I don't know, if the crossover is 6 db/oct. or 12 dB/oct.
This is the most complicated question. Maybe enough to replace the driver, maybe not. You should be measure .hehe. or... replace only one driver and compare the voices with listening very careful.

Idézet:Sorry for so many answers
Answer? Not question? Tongue

Idézet:Haven't you got some web like this? http://www.apmlion.wz.cz
Sorry but not... maybe try this:
http://users.atw.hu/audiodiy/viewforum.php?f=7

Bye.
Üdv, Péter
Válaszol
#6
So... shalafi66 wrote me some sentences. I translate it.

shalafi66 Írta:I thought. Maybe it is a DCR2522 speaker, not 2520 (the speakers says this).
Look at this webpage: http://hangszoro.net/help/3utas.htm

DCR 2522
Bass old: HA25/1018 (-407) and new: HA25-479A
Midrange old: HB12,5/1108 (-326) and new: HB12,5-326
Tweeter old: HG2,5/1624 (-405), new: HG2,5-463

If you hear the midrange quiet, it means this driver should be broken, because it's sensitivity 94dB.
And... you should throw it out the tweeters, because these are not good. See this original tweeter (régi = old):
http://hangszoro.net/help/jav/dcr2020/hg25-406.jpg

One more mistake what you did: The original bass driver's impedance = 8 ohms, and the new one what you bought only 4 !
The 4 ohm driver +2 dB sensible that the original. And the 4 ohm driver volume is louder +3 dB than an 8 ohm driver. This is a fact.
So... it means that your new 4 ohm driver in your soundbox +5 dB louder than the original 8 ohm type.
And the crossover is not matching with your (bass)drivers.

Finally....
I offer that i should be calculate a crossover to your drivers. But unfortunately
if the midrange driver is wrong/broken, the crossover-calculating would be meaningless.

Have a nice day.
Üdv, Péter
Válaszol
#7
Shit!:? Sorry , I gave wrong link (at the monacor) the bass is of course 8R... .oh.

The midrange speakers aren't broken, they play good. Today I was disconnect the potentiometer, wich adjusting volume of midrange, the sound is now really better. .sokk.

The tweeters are bad? Do you know ARV 104 by TVM (Tesla)? http://www.tvm-valmez.cz/index.php?id=82&catit=194&catg=5
The Videoton tweeters plays much better. Is really the frequency respone what your friend show me the frequncy respone of HG 2,5/1624 4ohm ?

At the back of the box is tab with Videoton DCR 2520A. Frequency range 25Hz - 20kHz. 70/90W and number 0-0918-295. No.339669

Photo:
http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/162/dscf0232th4.jpg loudspeaker from front

http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/6939/dscf0233en6.jpg original bass, after my repair .zold.
Válaszol
#8
Hello blackrider!
Another english speaking assistance here... Big Grin

Of course do the speakers sound better without that potenciometer! Have you ever seen a high-end (or just audiophile) speaker with such a potmeter? Wink Get rid of them.

About the bass drivers. H2000 is the "official" successor of the original Videoton firm. The speakers are now produced with new technology (bought from AKAI, etc.), and every driver got a great improvement from this "developement".
Perhaps you should buy a new set of recommended drivers for this type. .zold.

My advice is:

- get the bass drivers measured (T/S, impedance and SPL if you can) IN BOX

- please take out the midranges for a little examination: check if the paper (I think it's paper) surrounds are still OK - they tend to be broken at this age. Sad Measure them (SPL and IMP in box)

- measure the tweeters as well (SPL and IMP as always)

You REALLY SHOULD measure your drivers IN BOX!
If these measurements are done, I'm sure you will get some REAL help here. Smile

It's very respectable how you are motivated by these boxes... Wink
Üdv: spexcel!
Válaszol
#9
BlackRider Írta:I gave wrong link (at the monacor) the bass is of course 8R... .oh.
Hi

Could you pls give me a "good" link about your monacor bass driver? Thx Smile
If we think well... this is an SPP250 bass driver.
Link: http://www.monacor.de/int/en/produktseite_suche.php?artid=2106&spr=EN&typ=full
If you have a problem with this drivers sound maybe this is the cause.
So, this bass driver could be working well in a closed box (and your box is a bass-reflex, if i am right...)
The new driver (HA25/1118-479A) should be working well in that closed box too ! (i got now this new info from shalafi66.)

Idézet:Is really the frequency respone what your friend show me the frequncy respone of HG 2,5/1624 4ohm ?
I showed you the HG2,5/1624-406 tweeter (8 ohm) frequency-amplitude curve.
(you can see an implosion about 5500 Hz. The new driver doesn't contain this anomaly, only the aging caused that...)
Your tweeter is an HG2,5/1624-405 (4 ohm). shalafi66 told me, these tweeter's SPL curve is almost the same, only the impedance is different.

One question... will you buy new drivers or using the extants?
The postal charges cost 9 € (Euro).

First you should place in order the bass driver (the crossover of the bass driver) and only after that can be ameliorate the crossover other parts.

Goodnight.
Üdv, Péter
Válaszol
#10
Hello,

The surrounds are O.K. , yes it's made of very slim paper...

I haven't resources for measuration of the drivers .sir. .hm.

It is incredible, but I can't find the 8R version of bass speaker, perhaps they don't sell this speaker more.
Válaszol
#11
BlackRider Írta:Hello,

The surrounds are O.K. , yes it's made of very slim paper...
Hi,

pls read once again my previous post, during your reply i modificated it.
Üdv, Péter
Válaszol
#12
Zdravim BlackRider! Niekto aj z Ceska? Wink Keby si potreboval, mozem pomoct s prekladom...

Ha valakinek szuksege lenne, szivesen forditok BlackRider szamara, kb ezt írtam neki 2 sorral feljebb.
Válaszol
#13
Attil@ Írta:Zdravim BlackRider! Niekto aj z Ceska? Wink Keby si potreboval, mozem pomoct s prekladom...

Ha valakinek szuksege lenne, szivesen forditok BlackRider szamara, kb ezt írtam neki 2 sorral feljebb.
Szia Attila !

Tehát első körben ... a meglévő mélyet szeretné használni, vagy akar venni egy Hangszoro2000 gyártmányt? (kb 5000 Ft (9 euró) a postaköltség!)
Ha a mély megvan, a dobozt módosítjuk, mert úgy néz ki az új mélynek zárt doboz a jó, ez meg reflex (Ez pofon egyszerű, be kell tömi a reflexlyukat, vagy a csövet, és kész...).
Tehát... Először a dobozt, utána a váltót kell rendbehozni. Legyenek rendben az alaphangok. Csak eztán lehet a többi hangszóró váltóját igazgatni.
Ezt forditsd le neki, légyszives. Köszi Smile
Üdv, Péter
Válaszol
#14
Nem baj, egy próbát megér Smile

BlackRider: chceš použíť pôvodné basové repro, či si chceš kúpiť nový od firmy Hagszoró2000? Poštovne je okolo 5000Ft, čiže asi 9€. Keď už máš nový basák, treba bedňu prerobiť na uzavretú (len treba zaplniť basrelfex), lebo nový reprák je vyrabaný pre uzavreté bedne. Takže najprv treba upraviť bedňu a potom výhybku.
Válaszol
#15
Muzu psát cesky? .zold.

Práve nevím, jestli mám koupit nový... Ted, jak jsem odpojil ten regulator u stredaku, ty bedny hrají o dost líp... Jinak ten Monacor hraje slu?ně. Ale musel jsem do bassreflexu narvat pono?ky .torz. (hraje líp v uzavrené bedne).

Zdravím Slovensko .szia.
Válaszol
#16
BlackRider írta:
Idézet:Írhatok csehül? .zold.

Pont nem tudom, hogy vegyek-e újat... Most, hogy a középsugárzó melletti szabályzót lekötöttem, a ládák sokkal szebben szólnak... Egyébként az a Monacor rendesen szól, de a reflexlyukba zoknit tömtem .torz. (jobban szólnak zárt ládában)

Üdvözlöm Szlovákiát .szia.

BR: Ja ti odpovedat neviem, len prekladam Big Grin snad pomozem aj s tym Smile
Válaszol
#17
Thanks for translation Attil@. .taps.

Attil@> Ty doma hraje? přes Teslu AZS 217?
Válaszol
#18
Hello again Smile

A have done some measurements of DCR 2520A. Now the sound is really very nice, but the last (I hope Big Grin ) problem is with tweeters. At the frequencies 4,5 kHz to 5,5 kHz is peak. So I try to change crossover frequency for tweeter.

http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/4408/celekpv1.gif
The first graph is frequency respone of original DCR 2520A (without my interference).
The last graph is frequency respone after my changes.
Válaszol
#19
BlackRider Írta:Zdravím Slovensko .szia.
Ja tež zdravím Slovensko z Budimpesta Smile .szia.
Válaszol
#20
Zdaréc .szia.

Edit: So here is the lastest version .zold. Is it good? I think yes :?
http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/3372/dcr2520akn1.gif
Válaszol
#21
Super!
Üdv., Pagrus
---
Isten őrei lassan mormolnak.
Válaszol
#22
Thank you Wink It's unbeliveable how can these old loudspekers play (in compartion with loudsp. (ARV 104 and ARN226) is Videoton much better) Big Grin Only one thing hate me. The peak at 12kHz. Sad I think HG1,9 are better, they play frequencies over 20kHz.
Válaszol
#23
Great job! Doki do not read the criticism about the TVM speakers Tongue Big Grin

J think spexcel or shalafi can be size up about the tweeters.
Üdv, Péter
Válaszol
#24
Tesla/TVM speakers are good, but the ARV 104-0x/x is for our DIY constructers Smile (from http://www.diyfans.org ) almost shit. Better if for example ARV 089 (more natural sound). ARN 188 (also XW 165) is I thing best what TVM can give. ARN 226 is, becouse of big Qts, only for closed boxes (exception ARN 226-07/x, it have got double magnetic system) . ARN 312 is ideal fore home theater subwoofer. It play low frequencies (25 Hz Fs) .aaa. Films sounds great Big Grin But this is something
special (and much better .ordog. ) > http://www.diyfans.org/vase-michal6.htm

One question: Haeven't anyone technical informations about Videoton RA 6386-S ?
Válaszol
#25
BlackRider Írta:this is something
special (and much better .ordog. ) > http://www.diyfans.org/vase-michal6.htm
OFF
And if you are freezing/shaking, just turn it up, sit closer to the speakers and would be warmer Big Grin

I cant find anything about the Videoton RA 6386-S
Üdv, Péter
Válaszol
#26
http://www.google.hu/search?hl=hu&q=Videoton+RA+6386-S&meta=
Válaszol
#27
fdsa!
I found these too... but i think he do not want to buy it on the "vatera"
I tried to search technical information or specification but unsuccess...
Üdv, Péter
Válaszol
#28
Sad I can't find any technical parametres, propects and so on about this good receiver.

topeti> Do you prefer pure stereo, or 5.1? I am only pure stereo .zold.
Válaszol
#29
Sorry, I'm not topeti, but I definitely prefer stereo. The main reason is that there isn't so many music record, which supports the 5.1 surround. Or if there are some, i haven't got enough money to buy them.. Smile + buy or build 5.1 amplifier + cd (or dvd? I don't know, what kind of needed..) player.
Válaszol
#30
It doesn't metter Smile I have chance to listen to quite expensive 5.1 speakers. I don't know how you, but it don't inspire me.. The stereo is in my opinion better. And about money? I'm student, so I heaven't money to waste. .ok. Wink
Válaszol
#31
J prefer _pure_ stereo. Rotel CD player, Korsun (= china "made" Red Rose Passion) integrated stereo amplifier and Vifa speakers.
Üdv, Péter
Válaszol
#32
topeti Írta:fdsa!
I found these too... but i think he do not want to buy it on the "vatera"
I tried to search technical information or specification but unsuccess...
Peti, a cseszlovák (sic!) nyelvű találatokban van némi technikai info, sőt tuningtapasztalatok is.
A Rádiótechnikákat még nem töltöttem le a KDX-ről, nincs bennük valahol egy leírás?
Válaszol
#33
"J" is nick?
Wow Vifa speakers .taps. are very good and expensive, too. Rotel is a good brand. .udv.

It is funny Smile I play on Videoton RA 6386-S (modified at 2x64W/4R, k=0,11% ) or Technics SA-GX200, Videoton DCR 2520A and Tesla MC 911 CD player. I like this configuration Smile
Válaszol
#34
J was mistyped= já .
Válaszol
#35
That is the "key" Wink
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